Phil
Pennington, Reporter
27 March
2025
Analysis
– Can New Zealand and other members of the Five Eyes spy
group trust the United States any longer, after a major
blunder by top Trump officials?
That question is
swirling around the world, after it was revealed a a
group chat was held about military operations on an
unclassified app by top power brokers in Washington,
with a journalist added to the chat.
Five Eyes’
members would be entirely justified to wonder just how
secure their intelligence now was, various analysts
are suggesting.
Donald Trump’s head of defence, of
National Intelligence and the CIA engaged in a group chat
over several days on an unclassified – though encrypted –
social media messaging app, Signal, about a strike on Yemeni
rebels, with a journalist inside the chat.
Such
disregard for normal security procedures will “cause allies
to be very reluctant to share analysis and intelligence,”
said Ben Hodges, a former commander of US forces in Europe,
The New York Times reported.
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No
one among the allies is saying as much, not yet, and
certainly not New Zealand.
Defence and spy agency
minister Judith Collins, when asked if New Zealand still
trusted the US with intelligence, did not give a clear
response, but did say: “It’s not useful.”
Asked about
any impact on New Zealand servicepeople helping with the
Yemen operations, she said:
“I certainly haven’t had a
briefing on it, but I would say, that is not optimal
activity.”
Read more:
University of Waikato law professor
Alexander Gillespie said Five Eyes did not need a reset –
but this showed “a kind of recklessness” that posed a real
risk to the small number of New Zealand servicepeople in the
Middle East.
US Democrat lawmaker Mark Warner said
trust in Five Eyes was being eroded; he was among those who
grilled the officials at a Senate hearing.
“This was
not only sloppy, it not only violated all procedures, but if
this information had gotten out, American lives could have
been lost, [if] the Houthis had this information and could
reposition their defensive systems.”
Like Collins,
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon had not been
briefed.
His office said he would not talk about
internal Five Eyes matters as that was not in New Zealand’s
national interest. He is also national security and
intelligence minister.
“This is not done through the
media,” Collins’ office told RNZ, on
Wednesday.
However, both Downing Street and Canada’s
new prime minister Mark Carney commented. The former was
sticking by the US, while Carney said mistakes could happen
but that was another reason Canada must build its own
defence capabilities.
The UK’s opposition
Liberal Democrats said the lapse showed the Trump
administration could not be trusted.
Donald
Trump called it a “glitch” and rejected calls for
Defence Secretary Pete Hegseth and others to
quit.
Hegseth has repeatedly criticised Hillary
Clinton’s use
of a private email server when she was secretary of
state.
The Signal chat is now being investigated
internally.
The New Zealand security and intelligence
agencies’ spokesperson would not discuss specific details or
comment on “internal matters regarding our Five Eyes
partners”.
“There are robust, well established
policies, processes and technology systems in place to
ensure that, when we share classified intelligence, this is
done securely and in accordance with New Zealand’s
priorities and law,” they said in a statement on
Wednesday.
“New Zealand has a long-standing
relationship with its Five Eyes intelligence partners. This
is vitally important to the safety and security of all New
Zealanders.”
The UK, Canada and Australia are the
other Five Eyes partners.
Intelligence analyst Chris
Taylor of the Australian Strategic Policy Institute told RNZ
the event would add to the concerns that already existed
with the new administration, but due to the “fundamentals”
of the Five Eyes’ relationship the countries would be asking
deeper questions beyond just this one incident.
He
echoed Canada’s Carney about the lesson that all members
need to do more to build up their own spy
agencies.
The Australian federal government in Tuesday
night’s Budget put another $50m into the country’s spy
agencies.
A researcher at the University of NSW and
navy veteran Jennifer Parker, said it was very
concerning.
“Depending on what military assets the US
was using to conduct the strikes – for example, ships and
aircraft – the information could have given away their
positions. This could have allowed the Houthis to
pre-emptively target these assets, which is another
significant concern.”
Allies needed to meet the US
behind closed doors to understand more, Parker
said.
Warner said American lives depended on
intelligence from allies who had access to sources the US
did not have.
“However, these relationships are not
built in stone. They’re not dictated by law. Things like the
Five Eyes are based on trust.”
In the Signal group
chat, US Vice President J D Vance and Hegseth expressed
loathing for the Europeans for “freeloading”, calling it
“pathetic”. Trump later backed this.
Gillespie said
the breach appeared to have little real impact militarily,
and the potential for diplomatic damage was to his mind the
bigger
worry.
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