Craig
McCulloch, Deputy Political Editor
Prime
Minister Christopher Luxon has rejected claims by ACT leader
David Seymour that the ministerial line-up has become
“bloated” and riddled with “meaningless titles”.
But
former ministers from across the political spectrum have
backed Seymour’s assessment and his calls to slash the
number of ministers, portfolios and departments.
In a
speech
on Thursday, Seymour proposed capping the executive at
just 20 ministers – all inside Cabinet – and scrapping
associate positions, except in finance.
As well, he
suggested slashing the 41 government agencies down to 30,
with each minister assigned a single department rather than
multiple symbolic portfolios.
The size and make-up of
the executive is ultimately determined by the prime minister
– in this case, Luxon.
Speaking from Dunedin on
Friday, Luxon brushed off Seymour’s suggestions and pointed
out that ACT had pushed for a new department in the Ministry
for Regulation.
“What we are focused on is making sure
the public service is as efficient as it possibly can
be.”
Luxon denied the executive had become bloated or
that many portfolios were mere symbolism, and he pushed back
on those – like Seymour – questioning the value of the new
South Island portfolio created earlier this
year.
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“Absolutely disagree, completely. We want to
focus on the South Island. We want to make sure the South
Island is getting its fair share of infrastructure and
delivery, and I want the voice of the South Island in the
Cabinet as well.”
The new Minister for the South
Island James Meager sits outside Cabinet. The only Cabinet
minister based in the South Island is Matt Doocey, with
responsibility for Mental Health.
Asked about the
looming Budget, Luxon told RNZ the government would find
savings across all departments but would not disband any of
them entirely.
Former ministers swing in behind
Seymour
Speaking to RNZ, former National minister
Christopher Finlayson said there were “far too many”
ministers, associates and under-secretaries, mostly due to
the nature of governing in a coalition.
“A few baubles
have to be handed to otherwise unimpressive Members of
Parliament who really shouldn’t be there – or should be on a
backbench.”
Finlayson, now an independent barrister,
served in Cabinet from 2008 to 2017 as Attorney-General and
Minister for Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations.
He said
he never needed associates and preferred a streamlined
approach where each minister had clear responsibility for a
single department: “And if you don’t measure up, it’s fail
and farewell.”
Finlayson described New Zealand’s
approach as borderline embarrassing: “if you send out a
letter to someone and you’re the Minister of Foreign
Affairs, and then underneath it’s got the Minister for
Racing and the Minister for Railways… it looks kind of
goofy to foreigners, I would have thought.”
He said
many portfolios could be eliminated, citing the recent South
Island role as “pretty much a non-job”. He also suggested a
more coherent structure for government agencies.
“I’ve
often sat down – and this will confirm that I’m a geek – and
drawn up my list of government departments, and I think you
could get it down to about 20.
“It’s not just reducing
the size of a bloated executive and jobs for the boys and
the girls, but it’s making a more effective
administration.”
Former United Future leader Peter
Dunne – who was a minister outside Cabinet in both Labour
and National governments – told RNZ future prime ministers
should take a “much more rigorous” approach than their
recent predecessors.
He suggested a structure of 15
ministers in Cabinet and six outside.
“There are a lot
of portfolios which, as David Seymour says, are symbolic.
The titles are there really to appease sector groups, rather
than to deliver specific policy.”
Dunne proposed
consolidating certain portfolios – such as Internal Affairs,
Local Government, and the Voluntary Sector – under a single
umbrella.
However, he opposed a hard legislative limit
on the number of ministers and questioned Seymour’s
comparison with Ireland.
Ireland’s Constitution limits
the size of its Cabinet to a maximum of 15 full ministers,
but governments can also appoint junior Ministers of State –
of which there are currently 23.
Of those, three are
designated “super junior ministers” who attend Cabinet
meetings – a practice currently being challenged in the
courts.
Former Labour minister Stuart Nash said
Seymour’s argument had some merit, though considered it
ironic coming from someone who had set up the new Ministry
for Regulation.
“Do you really need a new agency to
reduce red tape?” Nash said.
“There would never have
been a Minister of Regulation – or whatever David Seymour’s
title is – if it wasn’t for ACT. Now is that
necessary?”
Nash – who held several Cabinet roles from
2017 through to 2023 – said portfolios were often invented
to placate coalition partners or key stakeholders.
“Do
we really need a Minister of Fishing and Hunting?” Nash
said.
“Under this government, there is now a Minister
for Space and a Minister for Manufacturing. When I was [in
charge of] economic development, both those portfolios were
included [there].”
Still, Nash acknowledged there was
sometimes a case for such standalone portfolios to send a
message that they were a priority area.
In his
Thursday speech, Seymour anticipated accusations of
hypocrisy over the Ministry for Regulation and said that was
different as his agency was designed to cut bureaucratic
bloat, not expand it.
Seymour also argued regulation
was a core function of government and so deserved its own
oversight.
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